From the category archives:

Car Buying Tactics

Consumers Are Blogging Their Car Buying Experience

by Jeff on May 19, 2008

I recently came across this post by ‘rivetergirl‘ commenting on her mother’s recent car buying experience. What surprised me was that they were dealing with 2 Subaru Dealers: Valley Subaru of Longmont Colorado and Vista Subaru in Glenwood Springs Colorado. The “surprise” is that the Longmont dealer was more than 200 miles away. Using the DealerDex Dealer Locator, there aren’t any subaru dealers near Glenwood Springs - so they were basically keeping the local guy honest. It sounds like the Longmont dealer was willing to give the customer the best price AND deliver the car, only to have the deal slip away because the consumer called Glenwood Springs and they matched the deal. Local guy wins.

I know things like this happen all the time in the car business. A Blue 2009 Subaru Forrester is a commodity. I’m not sure why the consumer didn’t give the Longmont dealer their business (location, service, price, etc). I guess another factor to consider is that if the consumer lives near Glenwood Springs, they will probably use this dealer to service their car - so giving them their business may have been the best choice. I hope the writer reads this post and comes back to leave a car dealer review of both dealers for future buyers.

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Dig Deeper Into Car Buying Research With Enthusiast Forums

by Mitch on April 24, 2008

You surfed the manufacturer’s site and got an idea of price ranges and options. You read reviews and saw the crash safety ratings. You even checked out invoice prices and rebates online so you’d know what you can expect to pay. Now you’re all set to hit the bricks and start shopping for that dream car, right?

Not so fast my friend. You missed a key spot in the Internet buyer’s process… one that is often forgotten but extremely helpful. It’s the enthusiast forum, and its value as a research avenue is realized in several ways:

  • Forums serve as a crystal ball of vehicle ownership. You can see what real people are saying about your dream car from 6 months to 6 years after the initial purchase.
  • If you’re looking for news on future models or upcoming changes to a current model, enthusiast forums have more fact and opinion than you’ll ever need.
  • You’ll hear about all the initial quality issues with the car you’re interested in. If the driver’s seat tends to rattle, or the new 2009s have a recall out, the forums will know.
  • Forum members are happy to discuss the deals they received on their purchases, giving you a true idea of what dealers are charging.
  • Because the forums are full of enthusiasts, there’s plenty of information on vehicle upgrades and modifications, if you’re interested in getting more performance or better looks out of your vehicle.

Enthusiast forums are around everywhere you look, with at least one for every manufacturer. They’re free to join, and you may just find yourself hooked on the wealth of information in these communities. While the list of forums below is somewhat abridged, there’s no question you’ll find some great insight on the following sites:

Acura:
AcuraWorld.com
Acurazine.com

Audi:
Audi-Forums.com

BMW:
Bimmerwerkz.com
1SeriesOnline.com

Cadillac:
CadillacForum.com
V-Series.net

Chevrolet:
ChevyTalk.org
Corvette-Forum.com

Chrysler:
300CForums.com

Dodge:
ChargerForums.com
ChallengerTalk.com

Ferrari:
Ferrari-Talk.com

Ford:
FordForums.com
Powerstroke.org

GMC:
DuramaxForum.com

Honda:
Honda-Tech.com

Hummer:
H2Fanatic.com

Hyundai:
Hyundai-Forums.com
HyundaiPerformance.com

Infiniti:
InfinitiForum.net

Jaguar:
Jag-Lovers.org

Jeep:
JeepForum.com
JeepsUnlimited.com

Kia:
Kia-Forums.com

Lamborghini:
Lamborghini-Talk.com

Land Rover:
LandRoversOnly.com

Lexus:
ClubLexus.com
LexusOwnersClub.com

Lincoln:
LincolnForums.com

Lotus:
LotusTalk.com

Maserati:
MaseratiLife.com

Mazda:
MazdaWorld.org

Mercedes-Benz:
BenzWorld.org
BenzForum.com

Mercury:
MercuryForum.com

MINI:
MINI2.com

Mitsubishi:
Mitsubishi-Forums.com

Nissan:
NissanForums.com
FreshAlloy.com

Pontiac:
G8Forum.com
SolsticeForum.com
G6OwnersClub.com

Porsche:
6SpeedOnline.com
BoxsterForums.com

Saab:
SaabCentral.com
SaabForums.com

Saturn:
RedlineForums.com
SkyRoadster.com

Scion:
ScionLife.com

Subaru:
WRXTuners.com

Suzuki:
Suzuki-Forums.com

Toyota:
ToyotaNation.com
Toyota-Yaris.com

Volkswagen:
VWVortex.com
VolkswagenTalk.com

Volvo:
Volvo-Forums.com

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Reading And Writing Effective Car Dealer Reviews

by Mitch on April 13, 2008

At DealerDex, we put a lot of stock into the value of consumer ratings and reviews, which is why we have our Car Dealer Reviews section available to all car shoppers. In our minds, reviews are the best way (and basically the only way) to sift through the dozens of dealers in your area and come out with a gem of a store that really puts the customer first.

However, in order for any consumer review site to be reliable, there has to be a very professional level of participation on the consumer’s end. It’s important to know how you can best contribute to the site, and what you should look for when reading reviews… this will ensure that you get reliable information to work with.

And so, we decided to post this little primer on effective dealer reviews. Be sure to read it over before browsing for your next dealership.

Writing Dealer Reviews

1. Write with a (mostly) clear head. Too often, we get reviews from consumers who are fresh off a negative experience, and all they can muster in their review is a pile of vulgarities and slurs. While it’s valuable for the consumer to post their dissatisfaction, the writing itself doesn’t make for very effective analysis. Take a moment to reflect on the situation (it’s okay to still be angry… you do want everyone to recognize that you’re upset), and try to write a review that objectively lays out what transpired and how you were affected.

2. Review ALL the dealers you dealt with. The whole point of car dealer reviews is to rank the quality of all dealerships in a hierarchy - not to just put down the bad ones. If you have a negative review about a dealer you didn’t buy from, well then you must have a more positive review of the dealer you did buy from… and that’s valuable information to the public.

3. Positive is just as important as negative. Maybe you’re seeing a theme here… consumers tend to only provide negative reviews, as it’s human nature to want some sort of justice when you’re dissatisfied. But, if everyone wrote negative reviews, no one would know which dealer to choose. The fact is, even the dealerships with the best reputations will end up having a problem with a customer now and again, but it wouldn’t be correct to only show that dealer’s problem customers to the public. What we all need is an accurate representation of dealers’ performance, and that comes from consumers like you taking the time out to provide positive feedback as well as negative.

Reading Dealer Reviews

1. Take everything with a grain of salt. Having worked in the business for years, I can say with confidence that many customers create (or at least contribute to) their own anguish when it comes to dealing with car salespeople. Nearly every negative review about a dealership has another side to it… sometimes the information left out is not that important, and sometimes it’s vital. You should take this into consideration when reading any dealer review.

2. Look at the dates of the reviews. Mistaking outdated information for current information is a common error in dealer reviews. Why, you ask? Well, consider the employee turnover ratio of this business: in many areas (namely the coasts and urban areas), the average Sales Manager might only stay at one store for a year or two. If you give a dealership three or four years, you could easily see a 75 - 90% turnover of its staff. So a pile of negative reviews from 2004 regarding a Service Department is only valid if those same people still work there and the mindset is the same. It’s sensible to look at the most recent reviews as the most accurate.

3. Consider the number of reviews and ratio of good to bad. One review is rarely enough information for you to base a decision on, and in some cases, the review could be an anomaly that doesn’t reflect the dealership correctly at all. If you find a dealer with three or more reviews (especially if they are all skewed one way), then you know you’ve got some great consumer information there. The more reviews, the more accurately the dealership is usually portrayed.

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Negotiating Strategies: What Works And What Doesn’t

by Mitch on March 12, 2008

Negotiating a vehicle purchase appears to have become part of America’s DNA. It seems almost instinctive to thumb one’s nose at any offer put on the table by a dealer, no matter what the price is. And strangely enough, while consumers may feel they have a unique and bulletproof approach set in their minds, sales personnel on the other end of the equation find themselves listening to the same excuses and objections over and over, to the point that it becomes almost comical. Experienced salespeople often know what a customer is going to say before he or she says it, simply due to the fact that they’ve heard the same strategy dozens of times in the past year.

But regardless of where consumers are finding this magical bin of negotiating scripts, the question still stands: do they work? Let’s take a look at some of the more popular angles and hear the car salesperson’s take on it.

“Just give me your best price.” When I was selling, this was the approach I hated most. Not because it was hard to get around, but simply because it was a downright pathetic statement. Because really, it’s a euphamism for “tell me, what’s the most money you’re willing to lose to sell me a car?” Not only does that statement reek of someone who knows nothing about the purchase they’re discussing, but it blatantly points you out as someone who wants to avoid establishing a relationship with the salesperson… and rule#1 of selling is that if you haven’t established a relationship with the customer, you’re not going to sell the car. Because of that, all you’ll get from me is a preposterous number that no dealer would honor, because I can tell by the lack of time you were willing to put into this discussion that you’re just going to take my offer to my competitor.

“I’m ready to buy today. I’m a serious buyer. You just have to make the right offer.” Nine times out of ten, someone who makes this statement is about as far from being serious as you can get. It’s a popular statement among older people (a.k.a. newspaper ad readers), which explains the problem: what this typical customer is saying is that they’re ready to buy right now, as long as the offer is $79 per month with no money down. In other words, the customer wants to have a car payment equal to their phone bill. You’re not a serious buyer; you’re a joke and a waste of the dealership’s time. If you’re lucky, the salesperson will simply tell you to take a hike.

“That offer’s too high - my friend only paid (whatever)”. Yet another tactic that proves you know nothing about the investment you’re about to make… your whole grasp of the expense is based on the advice of a friend who just gave you a generic monthly payment figure. Well, I don’t know your friend, but I can tell you from experience that one of three things is happening here: 1) your friend lied to you, 2) your friend neglected to mention the rest of the stipulations of the deal, 3) you conveniently forgot the other stipulations your friend told you about. This also happens when people turn in their lease, and wonder why they have to pay $400/mo with zero down when their last lease was $300/mo with zero down. It’s because their last lease was actually $3,000 down, and they’ve conveniently forgotten about that. Fact is, you have no clue what kind of deal someone got on a car unless you have the buyer’s order sitting in front of you. Monthly payment means nothing. A salesperson will patronize you at best, and the offer might even get more attractive… but in the end, the fact that you’ve shown such a lack of knowledge will stop you from getting the best deal.

“I need to be at (whatever monthly payment)”, or, “I’m approved for (whatever amount)”. I never really understood this one, and it often resulted in me giving a vacant stare as the customer sat across from me attempting to purchase a car well out of the price range they’ve just mentioned. Do you really think that by saying “I can only afford (X)” that the dealer will bend over backwards to make that happen? It seems buyers think that once they state the car they want and the price they can afford, they’ve put the ball in the dealer’s court to make it happen. What customers don’t realize is that a salesperson couldn’t care less about the car you picked out. If you can only afford $300/mo, and you’re on a $500/mo car, then you’re on the wrong car. This approach does not work if your goal is to buy the car you came in on, but it will waste plenty of your time as the salesperson tries to sell you on a much cheaper car.

Threatening to walk out on the negotiation. This strategy actually does prove successful because of a general rule of thumb in sales, which states that a Sales Manager should always get to speak with the customer before they leave. It’s definitely a good way to go over your saleperson’s head to the Manager who is creating the deal. It will often result in your lowest offer as well, though if your demands are unreasonable, the low offer will be a fictitious figure that no dealer would honor. This is done to ensure that you come back after leaving the store, because you won’t have any success shopping such a crazy number.

I know what you’re thinking: it seems like most of these strategies are examples of what doesn’t work. So then, what does? It’s simple, and if you look at the aforementioned strategies you’ll realize that most of them falter because they expose your lack of knowledge. If you’re not bringing any knowledge to the table, then you’re just trying to match wits with people who have these kinds of discussions three times a day… and that means you’ll lose.

The way to get a foothold on the negotiation is to acquire knowledge. Use the Internet to gather every possible piece of data you can, and you’ll control the discussion. Plus, ironically, car salespeople rarely acclimate themselves to the wealth of information on the web; that means it’s fairly easy to gather information that your salesperson won’t even know. And that’s how you school a salesperson.

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Run For The Border

by Mitch on March 5, 2008

If you’re a buyer in position to do some interstate car shopping, you may have seen some cheesy newspaper ads and radio spots talking about how “the deals are better in (whatever neighboring state)!”. As bad as these attempts are to sway your opinion of buying a car outside your home state, there’s actually a lot of validity to the argument. If dealers took the time to educate their consumers rather than push big bubbly ads on them, the concept could actually be of value to many buyers out there.

Well, if you want something done right, I guess you’ve got to blog it yourself. So here we go.

You should first understand that there are several key elements of car buying which vary from state to state:

  • Supply & Demand
  • Manufacturer Programs
  • Dealer Legislation
  • Credit & Loan Legislation

Why should you concern yourself with such matters? Because driving to a dealer across state lines could mean getting a lot more car for your money, and that’s what it’s all about.

For one thing, making the trip across the border can easily land you in a different demographic region if you go far enough, where the car you thought was so hard to find (and even harder to get a deal on) turns out to be readily available. I helped a few friends with their purchases last year, and they experienced this phenomenon first-hand. A three-hour drive from South Jersey to Maryland meant the difference of $1,000 in the price of a 2007 Acura TL, simply because the market wasn’t as hot there. Even more interesting was the market for the G37 Coupe; brand-new at the time and in extremely high demand in northern New Jersey. Dealers there refused to take more than $1,500 off the MSRP, and even that offer came about after a lengthy negotiation. We decided to try our luck with a New York dealer only 40 minutes away, and found that they had no qualms about letting go of the G37 at $300 over invoice because no one in their snow-ridden area was biting on the rear-wheel drive car. 40 minutes driven, $2,500 saved. Not bad.

You also have to consider the legislation of all the states in your area. We’ll stay with the New York/New Jersey theme as there are some great examples there.

We’ve all seen that mystery fee on our vehicle purchase forms referred to as “Document Fee”. You see, in New Jersey, it’s state law that you can charge whatever you like for Doc Fee, as long as you charge everyone the same amount. In NJ you could easily find yourself paying a $300 Doc Fee… though I suppose you can rest easy knowing everyone else got as screwed as you. And what about New York? Turns out that NY mandates a $45 Doc Fee for all dealers. Figure that one out.

Then there’s the matter of Gap Protection. Gap Protection is often sold as insurance, covering your first few years of ownership when you owe more on the car than it’s worth (hence the “gap” in your investment’s value). Gap Insurance is great for peace of mind, but it will run you upwards of $500 - depending on what a dealer decides to charge - on a financed vehicle in New Jersey. In New York however, Gap Protection is gratis… no need to purchase the insurance.

You’ve got the Internet as a great resource for gathering this information. Now you just need the time (and the patience) to shop for your best purchasing opportunity.

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